Skip to main content

tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  June 7, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT

12:00 am
actually having to obviously go through the trauma? >> exactly. because i think it's an important lesson. a lot of people don't realize until it's too late. >> well, chris, thanks very much. appreciate it. >> i appreciate it. >> that does it for "360." thanks for watching. "piers morgan tonight" starts now. i'll see you tomorrow. tonight, anthony weiner's extraordinary emotional confession. >> i haven't told the truth, and i've done things that i deeply regret. >> he admits he sent that photo and worse. he admits he lied. >> it was something that i did that was just wrong. and i regret it. >> but he insists he won't resign. so what happens now? and the man who wants to be your next president. >> i'm mitt romney, i believe in america, and i'm running for president of the united states. >> you've heard what mitt romney says about president obama. >> barack obama has failed
12:01 am
america. what he did did not help the economy get out of the slide it was in. in afghanistan, the surge was right, but announcing a withdrawal date, that was wrong. >> well, tonight, i'll ask him what he'd do to fix america. what's he really think about sarah palin, and what makes him think he'll win the second time around. tonight, in the wake of weinergate, is america ready for a man who doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, has been with the same woman since high school, and may just be the cleanest man in politics. that's mitt romney, this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. congressman anthony weiner finally confessed today, just one week after insisting a hacker had posted a lewd photo to his twitter account. the new york democrat finally admitted he had sent the photo himself and that he lied about it. >> last friday night, i tweeted a photograph of myself that i intended to send as a direct message as part of a joke to a woman in seattle. once i realize i had posted to it twitter, i panicked.
12:02 am
i took it down and said that i had been hacked. i then continued with that story, to stick to that story, which was a hugely regrettable mistake. >> and apparently it wasn't the first time the seven-term congressman says he's repeatedly had what he calls inappropriate conversations conducted over twitter, facebook, e-mail, and occasionally on the phone with women he'd met online. but he says he has no intention of resigning or separating from his wife. i want to bring in wolf blitzer, who's pretty much seen it all, and who interviewed congressman weiner, sat right here, and told him a complete pack of lies. have you ever seen anything quite like this? >> usually when they lie, they sort of hedge it and they dissemble and find an element that maybe you can quibble over, what that word really meant or what it didn't mean, but he flat-out lied. he looked at us right in the face, me, but all of our viewers out there, not just me, but did a whole series of interviews.
12:03 am
>> let's watch a clip, because it's fascinating now to look back on just how brazen this was. >> you would know if this is your underpants, for example. >> i appreciate you continuing to flash that at me. look, i've said the best i can that we're going to try to get to the bottom of what happened here. but i just want to caution you, and you understand this, you're a pro, that photographs can be manipulated, photographs can be taken from one place and put in another place, photos can be doctored. and i want to make sure that we know for sure what happened here. it certainly doesn't look familiar to me, but i don't want to say with certitude to you something that i don't know to be the certain truth. >> i mean, there are a few clues, "i don't want to say with certitude," a very strange thing to say about a picture you obviously either know is yours or not. >> he was lying there, because he knew, as he said today, that that was, in fact, him, he tweeted himself, he thought it would be a direct message to this young college student in washington state, but went out to all of his 45,000 or 50,000 followers on twitter, briefly,
12:04 am
and then he deleted it, but he did it himself. >> what is fascinating to me, having covered many of these scandals over the years, as you have, is that watching him today, i thought any moment now, he's going to say, "and i'm stepping down." it seemed to me completely impossible for a man to continue who had spent a whole day on television lying through his back teeth. not just to the media, but to the electorate. but he hasn't. why hasn't he resigned? >> he thinks he probably can resign this, if he opens up about it and goes into some sort of therapy, says he's going to have some therapy. he's been married less than a year to a lovely young woman, she works for the secretary of state, hillary clinton. so it's going to be a very, very painful ordeal. on top of all of that, now nancy pelosi, the democratic leader in the house, says she's going to
12:05 am
have a full-scale ethics committee investigation. >> but hasn't she had to, wolf? because according to a report i saw you do just a few moments ago, he rang her, had a conversation with her on if phone, in which he twice said, i'm definitely not resigning, putting her in a position where if she wants to do anything to get him out of his job, she has to do it. >> she has to do it and there will be a full-scale investigation now, and some of the unanswered questions that he apparently did not answer include, did he use any u.s. government equipment, computers, cell phones, even in his hard line in his office, because he did have a few phone conversations, which involved sex. did he use any of u.s. taxpayer-funded equipment -- >> if he did, would that be resignation -- >> i don't know if it would be resignation, but it would been a ethics violation. and the other question that seems to be open, he says there was six women with whom he had these inappropriate relations on social network sites or on the phone. were any of them underage? that apparently hasn't been answered.
12:06 am
>> he doesn't know, does he? i think when he was asked in the press conference, he said he was pretty sure, but he didn't know. >> he didn't know for sure if somebody was 16 or 17 or 15. somebody was 16 or 17 or 15. >> and if there's an underaged girl, that would be -- >> if he's sending a lewd photo to an underaged girl, that would be more than inappropriate. >> that would become a criminal matter? matter? >> it might be. i'm sure capitol hill police will take a closer look at all this. and he's got a lot of political enemies out there. because he's a very well-known, articulate, smart -- >> and flying very high? >> he was on a path to becoming the next mayor of new york city if he would have played his cards right. he was very well-liked, respected, and had a good shot at becoming the mayor of new york. i don't think he does anymore. >> is that dream over for him? >> probably. right now his dream is to, a, save his marriage, and b, to a certain degree, save his job in the united states house of representatives. if he doesn't resign, if he
12:07 am
stays put, will the people in his district, which is queens and brooklyn, will they re-elect him next time around. >> it's a very interesting call, because the morality of this is one thing. the politics of it is another. you know, if it is proven that he actually didn't use any government facility for this at all, then it becomes, i guess, to some people, an entirely private matter between him and his wife, and shouldn't necessarily, in the new climate that we're in, mean the end of his political career. >> well, it raises questions about his judgment, and that's where he could have some problems, with his constituents, in new york city. >> will the lying be more problematic than the original crime? >> it's one of these situations where you're caught so blatantly lying. can anyone believe you again? >> watching that clip of you and him, he was so credible, really. he was looking you straight in the eye. >> i've got to tell you, when i left that -- i was in his capitol hill office, in the house of representatives, and i remember rushing back to our cnn
12:08 am
studios in washington, and i'm saying to myself, you know what, it sounds to me like it may have been his picture, but it was out there, but somebody else hacked it and somebody else sent it out to embarrass him. i sort of believed that line, especially when some technology experts were telling me, we, there are certain twitter, tweet pic opportunities where it's not that difficult to get somebody else to look like somebody else is sending a picture, that really you're sending. >> in all your time, wolf, at cnn, have you ever had anyone in political life, with reasonably high office, look you in the eye and lie like anthony weiner was? >> well, i was in the roosevelt room when bill clinton was accused of the monica lewinsky, i was the network television pool correspondent when he looked me -- and i was standing right there, and he had that famous line, "i did not have sexual relations with that woman, ms. lewinsky," he was looking right at me when he said that. now, technically, as he later testified, before, you know, the
12:09 am
investigation, the phrase "sexual relations" had a specific meaning in his mind as opposed to the kind of sex he and monica lewinsky were engaged in. so, technically, it may not have been a lie, because "sexual relations" meant certain things to him that it didn't mean, but it reminded me of all of those sordid days. now, remember, bill clinton, he came through, and his reputation is very high right now. >> and it gets higher all the time. >> maybe i asked you the wrong question, wolf, is it, when these politicians look you in the eye, wolf blitzer, in these times of personal crisis, should we believe the complete opposite. are you the barometer for them lying? >> in all my years, and most always, there are plenty of liars out there, but they tell the truth, and if they're going to -- they don't blatantly lie as anthony weiner did, so specifically. he knew it was a lie, and he just spoke out the way he did, because he says he was embarrassed and he was --
12:10 am
>> he apologized to a few people from the podium. has he apologized to you yet? >> he apologized to everybody, he didn't apologize to me directly, specifically, didn't call me up or anything like that, and he doesn't have to. but i think to our viewers, though, a lot of people were watching, here in the united states and around the world, he went on television, he should have just kept his mouth shut and not said anything rather than blatantly going out there and lying. but he was arrogant, and thought he could get away with it, as he himself now acknowledges, and made a huge, huge mistake. >> you've seen people resign or be fired over very serious financial impropriety. this raises this whole issue of political misbehavior against political life or life in high office. what's your view? you've seen them come and go over the years? do you actually believe that it is material to a man's fitness to preside in high office in american politics as to how he conducts himself in his private life. >> i think to most americans, it
12:11 am
is. if you want to serve in the house or the senate, or as president of the united states, for that matter, the american public wants to hold you up to a much higher standard, than if you're just a private citizen and you make a mistake and move on. but when you're elected to public office, they expect that you're going to have some standards right there. and, you know, he made a huge, huge mistake, and we'll see if he can survive this, as i said, a, with his own marriage, but b, with his political career. >> are you a betting man? >> no. >> if you were, how long would you give him? >> i don't know. i know there are other members of congress, chris lee who showed that photo of him on craigslist or whatever, he didn't survive. some other members of congress might survive. i think it's -- i would say it's 50/50 right now. depends on how this falls out. and i think a lot will depend on how his wife reacts publicly as well. because she's a wonderful, wonderful woman. she doesn't deserve this. >> thanks very much, wolf. we also have tonight, by coincidence
12:12 am
coincidence, an interview with mitt romney, who is probably, at the moment, from what we know, the squeakiest, cleanest man in american politics. that's going to be fascinating. have you ever drunk alcohol? >> no. >> have you ever taken drugs? >> no, no. >> presumably, you've never had an affair, because you couldn't have -- >> of course not. >> you can say that with total non-schwarzenegger certainty? >> yes. i have tested alcohol, on one experience, but drugs, never. >> this is one of your trump cards. when you look at all these politicians, whether it's anthony weiner or john edwards or arnold schwarzenegger, the one thing we don't have to worry about in america, if you're elected president, is anything tumbling out of the cupboard, right? >> better not. no, he's -- we have a very, very close relationship and devoted to each other and we've been through some hard times together too.
12:13 am
>> revealing stuff there from mitt romney and more of that coming up. but when we come back, i'll ask a woman who knows capitol hill about the x-rated antics behind closed doors and her strange experience with anthony weiner.
12:14 am
12:15 am
12:16 am
to be clear, the picture was of me, and i sent it. i am deeply sorry for the pain this has caused my wife, huma, and our family. >> anthony weiner's bad behavior may have in some ways be an old story in washington, but what's new is twitter. is this the new age of infidelity, and is there anything the congressman can do to clear his name? joining me, michael sit rick, and vicky ward with "vanity fair" magazine. michael, on a scale of one to ten, just how tarnished is anthony weiner's reputation right now? >> probably eight. >> is it retrievable? >> i think it is. the american public has a great propensity to forgive people,
12:17 am
and i think what he would have to do is to pick a show like yours, go on the show with his wife, talk about this, to say, look, you know, i did something very stupid. i wish i could take it back. i can't, and have his wife and he talk about this, and talk about their relationship, and how they're getting past this and they hope the public will also get past it. that he's breached the public's trust, he's breached his wife's trust, and all he can do is try to restore his reputation by doing good and doing the right thing and he hopes people will give him a chance. >> well, i've had him on the show before and there's certainly an open invitation. it would be a fascinating interview. vicky, you've met anthony weiner. you wrote a piece in "vanity fair" just after 9/11 in 2001, in which you met a number of congressman. they later accused of you of some kind of -- >> no, only he did. >> tell me what happened quickly.
12:18 am
>> what actually happened was this. i had been sent by "vanity fair" to cover the world of interns in the wake of the gary condit scandal, which we were doing. i was shadowing three interns. then 9/11 happened. clearly, the story was no longer appropriate. i took those three girls out to dinner at the capital grill in washington, d.c., to thank them for their time and to say, girls, go back to your lives, story's over. as we were having dinner, about nine or ten congressman, we didn't know they were congressman, they just looked like businessmen, entered the private room next to where we were sitting and started clearly getting drunk, singing songs -- >> and one of them was anthony weiner, right? >> right. >> what does he say to you? >> he sits down next to me, he says, hi, i'm anthony, i'm an auto parts salesman. and i look at him, and thought, you're clearly not an auto sales -- >> and he was a congressman.
12:19 am
he was single at the time, but did lie to you about what his occupation was? >> and he opened the conversation with a lie, at which point i replied, i'm vicky from england. if you want to play chess, i'll play chess to. >> after this expose of all these congressman behaving in a pretty randy way -- >> he was the only one to then organize a huge puff piece all about himself, in "new york" magazine, and call me and "vanity fair" a liar -- he called me a liar and accused "vanity fair" of setting up a sting operation. >> yet everything you published -- >> was completely true! and then after the dinner, also, it was completely true that he had e-mailed one of the interns from air force one on his way with president bush to visit the wreckage -- >> using his political connections. the other interesting thing about your view of him, i guess, is you wrote a fascinating piece in a british up in this week about your ex-husband. there is that likeness pb,
12:20 am
you're separated from your husband, and then as you wrote in this piece, you discovered via facebook, when he began posting photos of his new young girlfriend. >> so what are you asking me? >> i suppose the point is, we talk about the new age of infidelity, as a woman who's been through this kind of situation with your ex, is it as bad seeing it in a telecommunication form as the real thing? is it worse? is it more humiliating when people are public like that? how would you describe this new era of facebook/twitter infidelity? >> you know, i think what it does is it provides a forum, a platform, if you like, for people's ability or, you know, voluntary sort of deep insecurities. it provides a platform for them to put them out there. so somebody who's shy, suddenly
12:21 am
has facebook at his disposal, and it's much easier to put something on facebook than it is to actually speak! >> as a woman, here's a thing, i think men are quite casual on this sort of thing. i think women are not so casual. would you view a man that was in your life, who did the kind of thing anthony weiner did, is that as bad as being physically unfaithful, in your eyes? because he says he didn't have any physical contact with these women? >> that's a real tough one. that's a real tough one. >> what's your answer? >> you know, i think they're morally both pretty -- >> but is it easy to stand by your mind if in your head and heart you know he wasn't physically unfaithful? >> no, because in his mind, he was. and what is he doing? >> the same thing to you. michael, let me go to you on that question. that seems to me a fundamental part of this particular scandal. from a male point of view, what would you say? >> look, i think that -- i think that weiner felt that he wasn't
12:22 am
cheating, that this was, you know, look, one of the problems with e-mail is people say things in e-mail, thinking that they're not going to be discovered. people say things on twitter and it has this anonymity, even if you give your name. and so, it was like jimmy carter said, you know, i was unfaithful in my mind or i was cheating in my mind, i think most men would dismiss that, whether it's right or not, and my wife wouldn't dismiss it. she'd be standing behind me with a knife, but i think that would be his justification. and the real issue is, there is no anonymity anymore. you can't separate twitter or facebook from "the new york times" or cnn today, as we've seen. the media is all interconnected. so you have to realize that everything you say, everything you do, has a sequence and is interconnected. >> and another key thing about this is what is extraordinary is that he made such a huge deal of
12:23 am
lying about all this, when it was all there in his technological trace. anyway, michael sitrick, thank you all, thank you both very much indeed. coming up, what drives a man to send pictures like this. i'll ask dr. drew what's going on in anthony weiner's mind. ] wake up to sweetness with honey nut cheerios cereal. kissed with real honey. and the 100% natural whole grain oats can help lower your cholesterol. you are so sweet to me. bee happy. bee healthy.
12:24 am
12:25 am
12:26 am
i have not -- you know,
12:27 am
going to try to handle this and i haven't ruled out perhaps seeing someone, but i'm not blaming anyone. this is not something that can be treated away. this is my own personal mistake. this is not something -- this is a weakness, a deep weakness that i have demonstrated, and for that i apologize. >> that was anthony weiner today. joining me now is dr. drew pinsky, host of hln's "dr. drew." you've been through many cases like this, famous people, non-famous people. what do you make of it? what's driven someone like anthony weiner who just got married to a very beautiful woman, a very smart lady, apparently. he's got all of his political future ahead of him, everyone tipping him as a high flier, and he's seem to have had gambled everything in a very reckless manner. why would he do that? >> this is the question everyone shakes their head and ask, when they look at young men of any age behaving such as this. and in those moments when they're trying to evoke those kind of experiences, they aren't
12:28 am
thinking, they aren't contemplating consequences. they don't really understand why they're doing what they're doing and they're very disconnected. and often, it can be like any other addiction, the consequences aren't considered until they really come to bear. the fact is, there's often a great deal of emptiness, and these men tend to take these experiences offline, and that's one of the more disturbing consequences that's what was described with congress manning weiner, he was already contacting women on the touch, and these things often go into flesh or face-to-face meeting, and it's in the context of what we call sexual addiction or sexual compulsion. >> and it also raises this whole question of social networking, twitter, facebook, and so on, how much easier it now is to have simultaneous flirtations with various women. >> well, there's that, and there's something, i was just telling somebody a few minutes ago, for old guys like me, it's hard to understand the exactly what they're trying to evoke. there's a social vocabulary goes
12:29 am
on now, where there's sex texting and sexting and sex pictures, and these are supposed toe evacuate something. it's all very provocative and exploitative. and we're always coaching young people to recognize when they engage in these impulsive behaviors, these things remain in the electronic world permanently. these rings are out there. and why a congressman wouldn't contemplate that is why we all shake our head today. and there's no greater evidence that there was something -- it's not a weak -- well, you can contemplate it as a weakness, but it's a circumstance where the motivation is distorted and they don't contemplate the consequences of what they're doing. to some extent, is that they, indeed, feel they're entitled, they're in position of powers, and many often men climb to positions of power so they can fuel their sense of narcissistic need to be okay and their specialness and they're entitled -- we've seen how many cases of men doing this sort of thing who have been in positions of power now. but when the consequences come
12:30 am
to bear, there often is profound shame and humiliation that floods. in. this is a human being we're talking about, and if this is someone i was caring for, i would have very grave concerns that this degree of public humiliation and the amount of shame that no doubt he's experiencing could precipitate a dangerous depressive episode, and i would be very concerned about suicidality. >> and besides all the jokes about weiner, it is a guy's life incomplete, both professionally and personally. in terms of the infidelity here, drew, it's a new thing, via the internet, this kind of nonphysical infidelity that he's been engaging in, as far as we know, there's been no physicality. what do you make of that, as a phenomenon? forget the fact that he's well known. obviously there must be a lot more people now indulge ing in this nonphysical infidelity. is it as serious as physical infidelity? >> well, it's interesting that
12:31 am
men and women tend to experience this somewhat differently. for women, any sort of intimate dialogue, whether it is typing through the internet or contact on the telephone is experienced as a very significant betrayal. men tend to not be quite as concerned when their female partners are engaged in these sorts of intimate conversations, as long as there's no plan to meet, no physical contact, not to say that it's not an indiscretion, but men aren't as troubled by it as women are. women feel very violated in situations like this. and reasonably so. i mean, the fact is, you know, when we treat somebody like this, oftentimes, we can keep these marriages together. i mean, more often than not. and they can end up in a very, very good place. i was asked earlier by someone whether or not he should end his career, focus on his marriage, or focus on both equally. the fact is, when we treat these folks, the marriages often end up in a much better place, and very often men contemplate a change in their career. what really make people happy
12:32 am
are their intimate relationships and the people they love. focus on that first. but i think in this case, it sounds like he's looking at this as a moralistic issue, contemplating he can brush it away with an apology and contrition, and attempting to hang on to his job, and boy, i think he's got a rocky ride ahead. >> yep, i think we all think that. dr. drew, thank you very much. your show airs, of course, at 9:00 p.m. on hln, in the unlikely event you're not already watching mine on cnn. thanks very much. when we come back, i sit down with a man who may well be the cleanest politician in america, republican presidential candidate, mitt romney. [ man ] i got this new citi thankyou card
12:33 am
12:34 am
12:35 am
and started earning loads of points. you got a weather balloon with points? yes i did. [ man ] points i could use for just about anything. ♪ ♪ there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] the new citi thankyou premier card gives you more ways to earn points. what's your story? citi can help you write it.
12:36 am
governor romney, welcome back. >> thank you. good to be back. >> i can't help but notice that the tie is gone from this campaign already. >> well, you sort of dress for the occasion, and i figured you were dressed a little too sharp, so i thought i'd bring it down a bit. >> last time, i remember, you were very, very business like, it was always a tie. and when you announced last week and now you're here on this show to talk about your plans to be president, it's a more relaxed mitt romney that we're seeing. is this a deliberate strategy? >> well, i stopped wearing my suit to bed at night, and i figured, as long as that's the case, i might as well carry on. >> is it because president obama's youthful and he often
12:37 am
goes without a tie. these things don't happen by accident. you have a whole team that as an and debate whether you should wear a tie or not, right? >> no, not really. i have a couple of friends that weigh in from time to time with that kind of question, but by and large, i asked the one person that counts, and that's my wife, what should i wear today? >> and she said no tie? >> i said, i'm going to be on with piers today, what should i wear? and i said, i think i should wear a tie, don't you? and she said, no, no, just wear the shirt you've got on, blue shirt, and a sport coat. so i do as i'm commanded. >> i want to talk to you, straight off the top, about your announcement, and in particular, sarah palin's decision to suddenly jump all over it, steal all the thunder, take all the headlines, knife you, either in the back or the front, whichever way you use to look at it. it mean, either way, it was politics at its most beastia l >> oh, i don't think i'd go that far.
12:38 am
i think sarah palin is generating enthusiasm and interest in a campaign this year. that's a good thing. she has a lot of energy and passion, and bringing it to our race is positive for us. and frankly -- >> you're always nice about it, and then she does things like that, where she basically says, well, he can be as nyce to me as he likes, but i'm going to ruin his day. >> she really didn't ruin my day. in a lot of respects, it's the best thing that can happen to you. right now your greatest enemy is overexposure. people get tired of seeing the same person day in and day out. >> she made, what i suppose you can call an apology, she says, "i do apologize if i stepped on any of the pr that mitt romney need ordinary wanted that day. i do sincerely apologize. we didn't mean to step on anybody's toes. she quite clearly wanted to step on your toes. >> this is politics, and people can do what they think is in
12:39 am
their best interests. we may well be competitors down the road, and as competitors, we think in ways that can advance our efforts. >> it seems to me that sarah palin is gearing up to probably running now. you, in a funny way, are the polar opposite candidate for the republican party. >> you know, i don't think i see it in that same light. i think that she and i both believe that government is too big. and interestingly, in our party, whether you're a tea partier or from another wing of the party, the message is all the same. right now the message that you're hearing from republicans is, government's too big, it's too intrusive, and the economy is a wreck, people are in crisis, and the president doesn't understand it. just the other day, the president said, look, this 91.% unemployment just a bump in the road. this isn't a bump, mr. president, these are americans. so you're finding my party really coming together in a very effective way to say this president is not doing the job
12:40 am
he was elected to do. >> who do you most respect of all the names? i mean, we've seen gingrich, pawlenty, huntsman, lots of people chucking their hat in the ring, rudy giuliani flirting with the idea, donald trump still may not be out of it, for example. who of all these names do you see as a serious contender at this stage? >> well, they're all serious contenders. i think it's too hard to predict who's going to become our nominee. who will be the two finalists. i think usually you have two people who end up battling it down the stretch. i don't know who it will be. i believe i'm going to be one of those two and that i'll finally get the nomination, but i can't tell you who the other person will be. >> rick santorum threw his hat in the ring today and sound vrd ed very pumped up, like he'd been kind of wound up, like one of those toys you get. >> you don't want to get into this without energy or passion. i didn't hear his announcement speech, but, you know, he's a capable guy, senator from pennsylvania, once upon a time. and if he's getting in, it means he wants to win. and so he'll do what he's got to
12:41 am
do to -- >> the interesting thing about him, i thought, is he does have this kind of dynamic style. the one criticism i hear quite a lot about you is that you're a great guy, a lot of people like you, i don't hear a lot of people that hate mitt romney, but you lack a bit of oomph, a bit of passion, about bit of firepower. >> i bet you say that to all the guys. i'd be surprised if people who knew me well came to that conclusion. >> is there a smoldering volcano? >> i have romney genes. my dad was in politics and was also a leader in the automotive sector, and you try and hold on to your emotions, but i've never been accused of having too little passion. and getting into this race is a guy who spent his life in the private sector, suggests a departure is driven by something very deep, and it is that i am really concerned about this country. i have to tell you, i think we are on a precipice, economically. >> this should play to your strengths.
12:42 am
i mean, the one thing that people say with you, is an understanding of the economy, because of all your business background. >> you're seeing the statistics. about three years in to president obama's four-year term, you're seeing housing prices continue to decline, three years in, you're seeing unemployment above 9%. three years in, you're seeing record levels of foreclosure. and i understand reported today, the chronic level of unemployment in this country, people long-term unemployed, that is a bigger problem today, more chronic unemployed today than during the great depression. >> wait a second, if you're being fair minded, given the scale of the financial crisis, by common consent, the worst we've ever seen, is it really surprising it's taken a bit of time to come out of that? do you honestly believe that republican president would have got america out of that hole any faster? >> absolutely. what the president did on almost every dimension was the exact opposite of what was needed. he crafted a stimulus, but
12:43 am
instead of encouraging the private sector to go out and buy stuff, capital goods and put people back to work, he instead protected government jobs, union jobs. and if you will, saluted to the union bosses that helped finance his campaign. he simply does not understand how the economy works and he's surrounded himself with academics and politicians, no business people to speak of. >> but if the republicans are so smart about how the economy works, how is it that america under eight years of the republicans got themselves into the biggest hole of all time? >> well, i'm not going to speak about all republicans. i'm going to talk about this republican. and i -- >> so you would actively distance yourself from the whole bush years, administration? >> a number of the things president bush did were absolutely right. one of the things he did that was not right was to grow the scale of government at too rapid a clip. he spent too much money, we started racking up deficits. now, president obama, when he was candidate obama, pointed out those deficits were too large. he's now multiplied them by a factor of four or five. >> take a short break. when we come back, i want to talk to you more about the economy and in particular what
12:44 am
many see as your weakness, which is the similarity between your health care plan in massachusetts and president obama's.
12:45 am
12:46 am
12:47 am
12:48 am
>> that was, of course, president obama, who was praising romneycare earlier this year. this seems the to me to be your achilles' heel. the one where you're in most trouble, because when the president, who is a democrat, starts praising you for your health care plan, that's not good, is it? >> well, i think the president is hoping that we'll be diverted from the fact that obamacare's going to get repealed. if i'm president, i will repeal obamacare, and frankly, on the first day of my administration, i'll direct the secretary of
12:49 am
health and human services to grant a waiver to all 50 states from obamacare. >> but you say that as if somehow there are these great chasms of ideology between your plan, romneycare, and obamacare. there aren't. >> but what he says and what he does are very different. you heard in that clip of the president, he said, look, i agree with governor romney that the power to care for the uninsured should be given to the states. that's what i believe. given to the states. what he did was put in place a one size fits all federal takeover of health care. it's a bill that's 2,007 pages long. my bill was 70 pages long. >> but forget the number of pages. >> but he does a lot of things with those 2,630 pages, which is a takeover health care -- >> but when it comes down to it, the ideology is the same. a mandate's a mandate's a mandate's a mandate. >> you have different ways of approaching it. >> but isn't the idea the same? >> let's come back. one is, should a state under its constitution have the ability to
12:50 am
care for its uninsured? my answer is yes, but the federal government should not take over that power. number two, he raised taxes $500 billion. we didn't raise taxes at all. >> but governor, what you're talking about is the financial cost of -- >> let me get out of the mandate. >> tell me something about the idea. isn't the idea the same? >> if you say the idea's the same, you've got to -- 2,700-page bill. it's a lot more than just an idea. the idea behind our plan was to have a state deal with its own problem on a bipartisan basis and we said this. we said if people have the ability to care for themselves, they should not be able to go to a doctor or a hospital and expect the government to pick up the tab for them. we said personal responsibility has to take -- play a role when it comes to health care. and other people say no, the government should care for people for free. i said no way. we had in my state what i'll call health care welfare. people showing up, getting free care, who could have cared for themselves. and i believe it's a conservative principle to say
12:51 am
no, if you can care for yourself you should. and you shouldn't expect the government to care for you. >> but call me -- when you hear leading republicans, these are serious people, rudy, jack welch, sarah palin, others, serious figures, all saying come on, mitt romney, if you only just backed off romney care, backed off trying to create some impression that this is completely different to the obama thing, then we could be more supportive. because the problem's going to come. and it's blindingly obvious what's going to happen. all the other republicans want to hammer obama over obamacare next year in the election campaign. how can they do that if you're the guy they're going to support? >> the great news is that when i finally debate president obama it will be wonderful because he won't be able to say i'm some heartless republican that doesn't care about people. he'll say i was the inspiration for what he did. and i'll say, mr. president, how come you didn't call? how come you didn't ask me about your plan? because it will not work. >> you don't have to talk -- >> it will bankrupt america.
12:52 am
>> what republicans want you to do is express some regret over romneycare. >> piers -- >> do you have any? >> i point out that there are a number of things in the bill i didn't like. parts i vetoed. there are a number of things that are mistakes in the legislation, i'd change if i could. and i'd veto -- >> do you regret it in the way it finally played out? >> but let me tell you this, which is i know there are a lot of people who say my political prospects would be much, much better if i were just to say oh, it was just a mistake, it was a boneheaded idea, i'm so sorry. and it may well be true, that would help my political prospects a lot. the only problem with that is it wouldn't be honest. >> has it worked in massachusetts? >> you know, that's really up to the people of massachusetts. >> has it worked? >> it's up to the people -- >> but critics could say it costs sxhor more money, it hasn't actually worked. >> let me give you the data. >> you're a business man. has it worked? >> some parts worked well. some parts didn't work well. >> has it cost more money each year to implement romneycare? >> well, i understand it's about 1% of the state budget.
12:53 am
it should cost no daysal money from what we were previously spending. and so it costs more than it should. it's about 1% of the bungt. it's not breaking the state's checkbook. but the interesting thing was for instance this weekend a poll was carried out by the "boston globe." people in the state favor the program 3-1. it's not a big earning issue in the state of massachusetts. so let different states come up with their own plans. i would do a number of things. one is to return to the states the responsibility for caring for their own uninsured in the way they think best. that's consistent with the constitution. with the 10th amendment. that's the right approach. and secondly, i'd let individuals be able to buy their own insurance on a tax-advantaged basis the way companies do today. we discriminate against small business and individuals. >> so here's -- >> these are changes i'd put in place. >> just to conclude this, here's my problem. i actually liked your idea. >> good. >> romneycare. i quite like obamacare. just to declare my -- i come from a country where we have the
12:54 am
national health service. >> it's terrible. >> actually, it works very well for most people. but let's not enter that debate because this is not in britain. but the point is i'm in favor of this. what i'm not in favor is of you for political reasons now trying to pretend that somehow it's massively different to president obama's. >> mooerz piers, you know i ran for office four years ago when our plan in massachusetts was considered by republicans to be net net potentially a plus. it wasn't a negative. i ran for office. at that time we already had romney kair in place. and at that time people asked me would you use your romneycare and have a federal program just like it? and i said absolutely not. we'd violate the constitution. and states have differences that you have to accommodate. >> but in terms of the ideology, are republicans who say that it's wrong to take those who can't afford the insurance, to mandate them into getting some form of insurance, are they wrong in the spirit of the ideology? >> you said a couple of things there. one is do people have personal responsibility to care for themselves?
12:55 am
yes, in my view. >> but if they can't afford it. >> we obviously can't mandate to do something if they can't afford it. and we didn't. states have the capacity to encourage their citizens to take personal responsibility. and by the way, the nice thing about a system like ours with federalist approach is that different states can reach different answers. you don't want to have barack obama and his colleagues or even mitt romney and my friends to impose on the nation one person's view of how our health care system ought to work. >> we're going to take a short break, and we'll be right back after this. that's 50% of the daily value. pass on the news and make sure you and everyone you know is getting the calcium they need. ♪
12:56 am
12:57 am
12:58 am
12:59 am
tomorrow night more fascinating revelations from mitt romney in my exclusive interview. listen to what he says about his mormon faith and what he doesn't say about homosexuality. >> i'm not a spokesman for my church. and one thing i'm not going to do in running for president is become a spokesman for my church or apply a religious test which simply is forbidden by the constitution. i'm not going there. so i can tell you -- if you want to learn more about my church, talk to my church. if you want to learn what i would do as president -- >> let me ask you, then. do you personally think homosexuality is a sin? >> nice try. but i'm not going to get into -- >> it's a valid question. >> it's a valid question, and my answer is nice try. i'm not -- >> nice try of what? >> i'm going to tell you that as a leader of the american people i will do everything in my power to treat all people with respect and dignity and to advance the rights people have to choose their own course in life.
left
right